OFF: settlement of England (was: Re: Mountain Grill (!))

[Jon Jarrett]

On Fri, 4 Mar 2005, Eric Siegerman wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 12:50:31AM -0000, Jill Strobridge wrote:
> > And when the supply of
> > coinage dried up then land became wealth and the best place a
> > landowner could be was in his house on his country estate with a
> > private army to guard it.
>
> Much the same happened in Italy, didn't it?  As Rome -- empire
> and city both -- deteriorated, those as could, got the hell out.
> They retreated to their country villas and began fortifying them
> against marauders -- the seed of an arms race that would
> ultimately lead to the mediaeval castles.
>
> (At least, so I recall reading once; I don't really know that
> much about it.)

        I think that might be a rather simplified view, but I
would. Certainly the villas do survive as estate centres in Italy better
than in other places, while the nature of their economic basis shifts
rather, and in the fifth and sixth century some of them are indeed
fortified. But you've then got about a four hundred year gap before the
phenomenon of `incastellamento', in which the landscape becomes more or
less divided up between castle-holding lords, and in that middle period
society remains pretty much focused on the towns and the local power
situation is mostly angled towards the distant but threatening Frankish
kings. I don't think there's a link so direct you could call it an arms
race. As the next Empire begins to weaken, the local centres start coming
into their own again, is all, same thing happening again.

> > The Visigoths (I
> > think I'm correct in this?) attempted to emulate Roman authority
> > and adopted the trappings of Roman power
>
> Or Ostro-, not sure which.  Some kind of Goths anyway.

        The Ostrogoths briefly actually ran the Western Empire behind a
figurehead Emperor (Honorius) whom they didn't replace when he died in 476
CE, So their authority actually *was* pretty Roman. The Visigoths
inherited a Roman system in the same way but were inevitably a `new wave'
and they certainly did try and emulate Roman power in a second-hand
way. They tried to mix these elements with Old Testament kingship as well,
though, one of their propaganda themes was that the old Empire had been
given into their hands because of not being Christian enough any more.

> > This has travelled a long way from Mountain Grill I fear!
>
> Well, that Aelfred Jewel would make a fine addition to Smaug's
> hoard.  And if he happened to flame some pesky dwarves and
> hobbits who came nosing around, that'd be a Lonely Mountain
> grill.  And if he then decided to make a meal of them, he might
> wash it down with beer made from Misty Mountain hops.
>
> There and back again, ba-dum boom!

        There's no way I can match that :-) Yours,
                                                   Jon

ObCD: V/A - _Strange Daze '97_ (mainly because I recently got the first
Red Giant album, having been meaning to for ages because of the one track
by them on this; but that track isn't on the album (which is very very
good by the way))

--
                Jonathan Jarrett, Birkbeck College, London
    jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk/ejarr01 at students.bbk.ac.uk
  "As much as the vision of the blind man improves with the rising sun,
       So too does the intelligence of the fool after good advice."
       (Bishop Theodulf of Orleans, late-eight/early-ninth century)