If you pirate music, you're downloading communism!

[Alex S. Garcia]

Interesting thread and good timing, as there is a lot of talk about a new
law here in France to fight against "illegal downloading" (the Hadopi
law).

Ian wrote:

> I don't have any answers, but i do disagree in general with freeloading
from professional musicians, it is
> fundamentally theft, and should be dealt with appropriately.

There is an aspect that most people seem not to realize (or purposefully
ignore) which is that 90% of the people who download DO still buy CD's
(and go to movies, buy video games, watch TV, etc). These people simply
use downloading as a means to discover music they wouldn't be able to know
otherwise. It's a selection tool. Just like borrowing a CD from a friend
and deciding you like it enough to buy it. So why is the RIAA pissed?
Because this of course does not fit their plans of selling just any crap
to the public at large. People are becoming more picky and selective.

Of course there are also people who just can't afford to buy music. For
them downloading is the only way they can listen to the music they like.
The artists they listen to thus gain listeners who will most likely buy
some of their music in the future (provided their financial situation
improves... and that they don't first get sued & bankrupted by their
favorite artist or the artist's label!)

> However there are some real flaws here, out of print, discontinued,
simply unavailable, and rare records, plus live
> boots all need to be available, and under strict laws they are illegal.

Yep. That is another important issue. Laws as they currently stand tend to
place everything in the same bag.

> Whilst i'm against people getting fined.

The Hadopi law mentioned earlier proposes to give downloaders 3 warnings,
after which (if they do not stop) their internet connection would be shut
down by their ISP (though they would still have to pay for it!) This is
wrong in so many ways... I doubt it will hold though, as many people are
stating this would go against human rights (as it would block access to an
important source of cultural information). Besides, some folks on the
internet have already come up with a way to make the law obsolete (by
mixing in fake IP's to the ones of real downloaders, meaning that
innocents could just as easily end up getting sued for something they
never did!)

> I am also against musicians
> getting ripped off, they already get that enough
> from the record company.

Heh, I think the artists are getting more ripped off by the labels then
they are by downloading. And if anyone is really getting hurt by the
downloading (which I seriously doubt) it would be more the labels
themselves for that matter.

By the way, one of the many reasons why I doubt that downloading is having
such a terrible effect on the industry is because of the comic book scene.
All the comic book stores that have been questioned on this matter have
stated that sales have actually *increased* since the downloading of comic
books started. So I'd be interested in hearing an explanation of why the
music & movie industries are supposedly going the other way... I think the
comic book stores are just being much more honest about the whole thing
;-)

And remember folks, when the VCR first appeared everyone got scared and
started worrying about copyright infringements as well. I just hope things
get resolved as smoothly...

> I play in a band and released the music via our own record label, its
not expensive, and we can have it on amazon etc
> if we want. I've not gone to see if the music is available on line for
download, I don't really care, we are a 2 bit band
> that charges £5 for a CD. We all have fulltime jobs, so we are not
dependant on the money collected through sales.
> However If I was in a serious band, trying to get up the ladder, or even
already up the ladder and each CD sale is
> part of my actual salary, I'd be pretty p*ss*d off if any of my=2
0CURRENT IN PRINT albums appeared online for people do
> download..

Not me. I'm working on a number of albums myself and really wouldn't care
either way. I guess as a writer I just want people to have access to what
I do. It is a form of expression after all. Sure, earning a living from it
would be pretty cool (and yes, it is the ultimate goal) but I'm pretty
sure that can be achieved regardless of downloads (I really doubt U2 or
Metallica will ever be poor because of people downloading their music!) I
really am not worried about this.

>> Hey Al, have you heard of the approach that the UK is taking (or maybe
>> has taken?) to make music downloading llegal, and pay for though some
>> kind of network tax or surcharge, which is then to be divided among the
>> music industry?  Sort of like what they did in the US with cassette
>> tapes?
>
> They did that in the Netherlands, too, and they're still doing that with
> CD-Rs, and undoubtably DVD-Rs.

In France too! And that's another thing that pisses me off. If we are
paying a tax for blank CD's & DVD's then why the heck are the authorities
bugging us about downloads?!? That's what those taxes are supposed to be
for! Of course, they're not being too vocal about it... they'd rather we
forgot about the tax, heh!

M. Holmes:

> There's an interesting debate all in itself. If you record a TV show to
> watch later, it's "timeshift recording" and is quite legal. If you forget
> to delete it after having watched it though, it now becomes illegal.

Now this is very interesting. It seems to imply though that you can keep
it as long as you want so long as you haven't watched it yet... In which
case, how do you prove whether you've watched something on your computer
yet or not? :-o

> It was technology which gifted the entertainment industries with vast
> riches through mass-production and now technology is taking it all away.
> Crying "Unfair!" and trying to prosecute the buyers into bankruptcy isn't
> going to change the end result one iota. In fact it's more likely to
> speed up the endgame through people becoming sickened at such antics.

Oh definitely. And it's already started. I've heard of several cases of
folks who were sued by labels and vowed to never again buy anything from
those specific labels. Great customer service! Heh.



Alex.